New Image for Le Havre
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New Image for Le Havre
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New Image for Le Havre
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Session: Le Havre:: First time players. 2 player game.
by SilvaShado
First off, my husband and I have played Agricola a few times before this and found that game frustrating, though eventually rewarding. I will say for our first run-through of Le Havre, we found it only slightly less frustrating, but just as rewarding.I will say that I made one major mistake relatively early on, which was forgetting to pay a brick for making an iron ship. But neither of us noticed until the next round and it would have been too difficult to redo things so we continued with the agreement that I would focus on getting a brick and placing it there, which I did.
I won, which I feel slightly guilty for as the iron ship did give me an advantage. I won 187 to his 143. But he still gave me quite a run for my money as there were several times I couldn't take an action because his piece was there.
But I feel I got quite a bit of the strategy early on, such as always retaining one grain and 2 cattle for Harvest, which saved me several times when I could change those into bread and meat.
It did take us about an hour to open the game, punch it out and read over the rules. The rules were not the clearest and we had several questions on how certain things worked, but we figured it out as we played. It was not easy to get money for the first several rounds and I would say it did not come easy at all until the final rounds.
It took us 3 hours to play the game, but I admit to several moments of analysis paralysis, mostly due to how late it was getting and my brain was ceasing to function. Thankfully since it was our first game, my husband helped me through several of the moments, giving me advice.
While I am looking forward to playing it again, I know it'll be much like Agricola where I will need to be in the right frame of mind at the right time of day with plenty of time to play. But I do believe it will see the table again soon.
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Reply: Le Havre:: Sessions:: Re: First time players. 2 player game.
by aartdouglass
Great session report. I think that if forgetting to pay a brick to enter the wharf for an iron ship was your only mistake on your first run-through, you guys did great!↧
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Reply: Le Havre:: Sessions:: Re: First time players. 2 player game.
aartdouglass wrote:
Great session report. I think that if forgetting to pay a brick to enter the wharf for an iron ship was your only mistake on your first run-through, you guys did great!
+1
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Reply: Le Havre:: Sessions:: Re: First time players. 2 player game.
by m22chan
Word-for-word this reads like a session report of my first le havre playthru (except I played with a friend). It also took us quite a while to setup our first time since the chits included in my set were plagued with quality issues. We had a bit of a struggle removing the tiny pieces from their protective cardboard sheets without ripping them. I would also suggest dumping all the little cardboard bits into a tacklebox, or several small tupperware containers as this makes set up a breeze.Like you, my friend also built his first iron ship without paying a brick at the warf, but we just played on, assuming that it had been done (so both players would have the same advantage).
I love le havre now, but its definitely not a game that many people will "get" on their first plays. The object ("get more money than your opponent") is simple enough, but I think the tactical possibilities can be quite overwhelming to a new player.
Keep at it though, and I'm sure you will grow to love this game as well!
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Reply: Le Havre:: Sessions:: Re: First time players. 2 player game.
by SilvaShado
Thank you all for the comments. Glad to know we did well for our first play through. And that we're not the only ones who missed the brick on the wharf.I have a feeling that like Agricola, it will be one that only my husband and I play together. Our friends do like challenging games, but they're still at the Puerto Rico and Lords of Waterdeep level. I don't know that anyone of them would have the interest or patience to play either Agricola or Le Havre.
But I was thinking about Le Havre with more players and I was wondering if it doesn't get harder with more players since each person would take fewer actions per round. With fewer actions per round, you'd have less time to get the food you need and be able to work on getting other resources, buildings and ships. So it may be most enjoyable with 2 players.
But the round cards and everything does scale with the number of players, so I haven't looked to see if the jumps in the amount of food you need is less when you have more people.
Has anyone played a 5 player game? If so, how did it go?
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Reply: Le Havre:: Sessions:: Re: First time players. 2 player game.
by Fran_Kubelik
I have played with 3 and it is really wonderful! With 2 I felt like my lead could be whittled away with two or three small mistakes (failures to optimize). With 3 the game felt a little more stable.I have heard that with five the game can grind to a screeching halt, so it is only to be tackled with advanced players.
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New Image for Le Havre
by Aratar
My Le Havre special card - the card text is written by Richard Garfield, and he also signed the card during a session of signing Garfield's Gift cards for King of Tokyo at Essen '12.
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Reply: Le Havre:: Sessions:: Re: First time players. 2 player game.
by GamesDirect
I have played with 5. All first-time players. Playing the long game. It was--in a word--long. I still enjoyed it, but I wouldn't recommend that scenario. Better to have a group of 5 play in lower player-number games to learn the game, then unleash them into the 5-player ordeal.My wife loves Agricola (just the two of us or with up to 3 friends), but I can't get her into Le Havre for some reason. In Agricola, I think she likes optimizing her hand, establishing her strategy, and then executing it and she just doesn't get that feeling with Le Havre. Plus, we can play 2P Agricola in 45 minutes (not including set-up/tear-down).
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Reply: Le Havre:: Strategy:: Re: Some Thoughts about the Strategy
by GodfatherPTS
Jingking wrote:
(2) Supply: 2-3-4-2-1-1-1
Every round the game will replenish 2F, 3 fish, 4 wood, 2 clay, 1 iron, 1 grain and 1 cattle.
That means taking 2 cattles = taking 2 rounds supply, while taking 4 woods is only taking one round of supply.
Well, of course, you need to more or less make sure the things you are taking will be useful.
But in the early part of the game, they are all going to be useful and this is a good guideline to compare the relative value.
If you are consistently taking "less of a round value" of goods than your opponents, then you are in trouble.
Your conclusion assumes that "one round" of each resource is approximately equivalent (i.e. 4 wood is approximately equal to 1 cattle). I don't think this is the case. Just because 4 wood tiles come out each round doesn't mean each wood is half as valuable as a franc (which comes out twice each round).
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Reply: Le Havre:: Strategy:: Re: Some Thoughts about the Strategy
by rmshay
Sure, Kerrin, but you didn't tell me about it!:D↧
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Reply: Le Havre:: Sessions:: Re: First time players. 2 player game.
by SilvaShado
Thanks for the feedback. I'll have to try to convince at least one of our friends to play Le Havre with us to see how it goes.We'll not likely ever get a chance to play with 5 players, but it sounds like we wouldn't like it anyway.
Agricola definitely has a different feel where you're setting up your strategy and can go with it long term. You have to adjust more quickly with Le Havre to what's available and what you can get resource-wise.
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Reply: Le Havre:: Reviews:: Re: Don't Give Up on Le Havre - An Evolving Experience
by Anarchosyn
I liked all your updates, save the 8.2012. I didn't get a real sense of how your opinion turned around. As a fan of Caylus, and one who has grown tired of Puerto Rico (but loved it back in the day), the shifting sands of your opinion have left me hesitant to jump into Le Havre.That said, I also loved the evolving feel of this piece, especially coming across it as I have. You've inspired me to delay the posting of my reviews/impressions/takes until a similar range of growth occurs.
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Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Wharf
by snoozefest
If you have an iOS device, you might want to take a look at the Le Havre app. I think it has a pretty decent tutorial. Actually, it's a great way to play the game, too!↧
Why YOU should unplug
by Keith
January 9th, 2013Why should YOU unplug every day? Simple. We spend so much of our lives plugged into networks and computers whether cellphones, computers, or televisions and game consoles that the unplugged time should be a welcome relief. I know it can be easy to get lost in Reddit or YouTube for hours on end watching a stream of interesting or funny content race across the screen, but ask yourself...when was that YouTube video or cat meme as rewarding as the time spent with a physical copy of a game? When was chatting, or posting in a discussion forum as rewarding as the time spent discussing your favorite game with someone face-to-face?
I know a lot of IT folks are drawn to boardgaming because it's such a powerful outlet for an often unsocial and plugged in career. Whether your managing people in IT or coding, or repairing there's an isolation and numbness that comes with the job. Some people thrive with this, but others, like myself, really crave the human connection that's required with an offline game.
I'm sure you've had these similar thoughts at one point or another as well. I know a lot of game groups discuss this as why or how they got into boardgaming as a hobby.
My other interest in it comes from a standpoint of intellectual growth. So much of my career, and I suspect others, is problem-solving. When you're given a specific toolset you often approach the problems you encounter with those tools in mind rather than taking a broader approach to problem-solving. What can boardgames teach us about this that perhaps Wii Bowling cannot?
Every game is a puzzle of some sort.
Whether you're playing Apples to Apples and trying to make you friends laugh, or you're facing them down across the board in a tense game of Hansa Teutonica there's nothing like trying to solve the puzzle. Often, games that require bidding Le Havre can lead to a greater understanding of value puzzles and how to shape or reshape value. It's this combination of puzzles and solutions that drives a different kind of thinking and approach to problem-solving that I feel boardgaming provides best.
Understand People.
So many careers today have removed the mechanical only aspects of the job for ones that are more service oriented. Whether you're supporting students, customers, or arranging sales contracts with other accounting departments it's all part of a larger human connection. Gaining the upper hand in these situations is often desirable so you can shape your business to suit your needs (or your organization's) better. After all, aren't all interactions a negotiation of some sort?
Boardgames help provide a positive and real-world practice for these kinds of scenarios. Whether or not you like it ... when you're figuring out how to deal with the biggest threat in your melee game of A Game of Thrones: The Card Game or you're striking up alliances in The Werewolves of Miller's Hollow you're building practical knowledge about strategies for dealing with people. They may be contextual to your current situation, but they are always informative if you allow yourself to learn from them.
Reaction under Pressure
How will you react under pressure? I think most people have been asked to do more with less over the last decade. The time of expanding budgets and personnel is over. If a company can run lean ... they're going to do it as long as possible. Many folks reading this may be in a situation where they're doing the job that two or more people used to do...and doing it well!
Boardgames help us build confidence under pressure. I know wargames are particularly well suited for this because there is just so much going on at any given moment that it can be hard to focus. When the going gets tough, you can learn a lot from how you and your opponent react. In Advanced Squad Leader, I've seen people fold well before they had lost and I've seen people hang on to the bitter end because they know they can pull it out with a few good rolls. Likewise, the person that I love to watch is the player that gets REALLY behind in Risk or Diplomacy and then pulls out a come from behind victory based on their negotiation skills and tireless efforts to win regardless of the position they're in at their lowest point.
You might call that perseverance rather than performing under stress, but isn't perseverance just a positive reaction to stress. After all ... do we say the winning team in a blowout baseball game persevered to the end for a victory? Absolutely not! You need to be on the rocks, backs against the water to really dig in and persevere.
Sportsmanship
As much as we'd all love to win every time ... There's value in putting whatever you're facing into prospective. When I was first starting my career, it was really easy to get indignant about individual choices in a given day or week. I didn't have the perspective to look at the big picture and put context around what was happening.
In gaming, we all try to fight for our side as best we can. We want to play the game and have fun. When we win...it feels great. When we lose...not as much. However, we ALL want to smile and walk away from that table as friends or gaming buddies.
In business, it can be hard to walk away from the negotiation table as buddies. However, win or lose, you need to walk away on amenable terms to preserve the relationship. Boardgaming helps reinforce those skills and allows you to practice taking the sting out of a nasty loss or to help empathize with the person on the other side of the table.
Video-games, TV, the internet, and our cellphones rarely offer these meaningful opportunities to break away from the digital noise we consume and produce every day. Boardgames and positive gaming experiences offer opportunities to have a great time, while honing skills that we need both for success in gaming and in life or careers.
So...please take time every day to unplug if only to hug your loved ones.
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Reply: Le Havre:: Sessions:: Re: First time players. 2 player game.
Finishing your first game is impressive. Even with just two players.
The general consensus is that the game is best with three or four players. Five players can be challenging as there are less actions and more blocking potential.
I hope you really grow to like the game!
The general consensus is that the game is best with three or four players. Five players can be challenging as there are less actions and more blocking potential.
I hope you really grow to like the game!
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Reply: Le Havre:: Reviews:: Re: Don't Give Up on Le Havre - An Evolving Experience
by Bendalf
Anarchosyn wrote:
I liked all your updates, save the 8.2012. I didn't get a real sense of how your opinion turned around. As a fan of Caylus, and one who has grown tired of Puerto Rico (but loved it back in the day), the shifting sands of your opinion have left me hesitant to jump into Le Havre.
That said, I also loved the evolving feel of this piece, especially coming across it as I have. You've inspired me to delay the posting of my reviews/impressions/takes until a similar range of growth occurs.
That said, I also loved the evolving feel of this piece, especially coming across it as I have. You've inspired me to delay the posting of my reviews/impressions/takes until a similar range of growth occurs.
The notes posted in the "collection" area of my BGG account is not fully updated, and probably does not best reflect my current opinions on the game.
First off, I would fully recommend this game if you enjoy deeply strategic games. If you're a big fan of Euros or games designed by Uwe Rosenberg (i.e. Agricola), then this game is a must have. Personally I like Le Havre more than Agricola (I've played and owned both). If you want to try the game first at a cheaper price I whole-heartedly recommend the ios version.
The reason I was initially disappointed in the game is because the game was "smarter" than me. Since I was initially unable to intuitively figure out an effective strategy to be successful, I figured the game was uninteresting. Please note I didn't think the game was broken, but again, not interesting. I mean who wants to struggle for 90 plus minutes to barely keep your crew fed, build one measly wooden ship all while racking up tons of debt I didn't understand why it was ranked so high and the praise it received. So I traded the game for Cosmic Encounter - I think... can't remember anymore.
However, I couldn't let this nagging feeling go. So I got the game for my iPad (minimal cost to try the game again). After using hints, and observing computer IA decisions, the game started to make sense. I became aware of the deep, deep strategy in the game, and all of the juicy/critical decisions that need to be made every turn. The satisfaction you receive when you are building Steel Ships or Luxury Liners you're last couple of turns whilst blowing your opponents out of the water is very gratifying.
My only criticism(s) might be is that the game is very chitty (tons of cardboard pieces all over the place that you have to handle/reset/reallocate every turn or round) and it is not going to appeal to the casual gamer. What I mean is this: If a person says they love board games because they love to play Monopoly, Scrabble, or Skip-Bo golf, then they will get half way through the rules explanation and suggest a switch to one of the afore mentioned games. If a person says they love board games because they love to play Settlers of Catan or Ticket to Ride, then they might like Le Havre, but it is a heavier game, and might be turned off. You need the right game group to play, and from what I've read, it shines as a 3 player game. As a 4 and 5 player game it is excruciatingly slow due to analysis paralysis.
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Reply: Le Havre:: Sessions:: Re: First time players. 2 player game.
by SilvaShado
Knightwizard3 wrote:
Finishing your first game is impressive. Even with just two players.
The general consensus is that the game is best with three or four players. Five players can be challenging as there are less actions and more blocking potential.
I hope you really grow to like the game!
The general consensus is that the game is best with three or four players. Five players can be challenging as there are less actions and more blocking potential.
I hope you really grow to like the game!
Thanks! I'm always hopeful that we'll get one of our friends interested in the harder games some day. As for me and my husband, I'm sure as we play it more, we'll like it more and more. We already love Agricola, even with it's very frustrating moments with feeding people, and Le Havre is a bit easier on that point.
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