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Gaming Trent Daily #82 - Do Heavier Games Work Better Electronically?

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by Trent Hamm (GamingTrent)

Youtube Video

I am an iPad owner. I love the thing. Aside from long-form writing, a bit of coding, and some PC gaming, it's by far my preferred computer.

Naturally, as a gamer, I have quite a few great board game apps on my iPad. Ticket to Ride, Small World, Agricola, Le Havre, Eclipse... they're all wonderful board game ports.

What I've found is that playing games electronically loses something important. It loses that face-to-face interaction among players, the physical twiddling of bits, the watching of the other player while they're thinking, the conversation and trash talk.

What's gained, then, is the lack of bookkeeping. You click a button and the game is ready to go. There's no setup and there's no picking up. There's also no management of the game state necessary - it's all done for you.

Is it worth it? I think it depends on the game.

Through the Ages, for example, has become a game that I simply prefer to play electronically. The weight of the bookkeeping in this game when playing it on the table makes the electronic version flow much more smoothly. I do miss out on face-to-face interactions, but I don't miss moving around dozens and dozens of tic-tacs and cards.

On the other hand, I only play games like Ticket to Ride or Small World on the app because I don't happen to have an opponent ready to go. It's simply a substitute in those cases. If I have friends around, the reduction in interaction from the app is a far bigger drawback than the "cost" of setting up the game and playing it.

Will the iPad replace board games? Perhaps for ultra-complex games - but even in those cases, it may just be a supplement. For shorter games, it's a great substitute when you have people around, but it's certainly not better than the real thing.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: CSI sold out, still available at MM.

Reply: Le Havre:: Reviews:: Re: Le Havre: Un mare mágnum de posibilidades.

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by OisinoiD

Fremen wrote:

Excelente reseña. Este juego es una joya sin duda alguna. Mi único problema con él es que se hace muy rudo con 4 y 5 jugadores (una sola acción por ronda), además que el juego se torna muy largo. Prefiero jugarlo con 2 o 3 jugadores, que es cuando, en mi opinión, el juego brilla (jugabilidad y duración).

Gracias por la reseña.



Estoy contigo, ya solo lo juego a 3 jugadores.

Reply: Le Havre:: Reviews:: Re: Le Havre: Un mare mágnum de posibilidades.

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by OisinoiD

Luisjoey wrote:

Muy buena reseña, le havre me agrado mucho las veces que lo jugue (y gane) un excelente clasico de uwe.



Es un pedazo de juego!!!

New Image for Le Havre

New Image for Le Havre

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Seeking reassurance - there are other strategies, right?

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by Aurendrosl

chally wrote:

Other people with more experience may disagree with me, but I've never viewed Le Havre as a game where the goal is figure out the best strategy each time. You generally know the strategy, the challenge is to outmaneuver the other players (who are attempting the same strategy). There is a lot of flexibility and variety in the game, but the flexibility comes in crafting your personal path to Steel/Coke, not in choosing between Steel/Coke and some other option.

This is true to an extent, but I think it's a very good observation. Le Havre has several other paths to victory, especially with certain Special Buildings and especially if/when you add in the Grand Hameau deck, but the casual observer wouldn't be able to see the different paths to victory after only two or three games.

Yes, you are often bumping elbows against other players to gain certain things (which is interesting how Le Havre doesn't get credit for having much more player interaction compared to other WP games), but there are many strategies to pursue once you learn the cards. Yes, coke/steel is a very straightforward and reliable strategy to win. So is a "nothing but coins" deck in Dominion. But there are ways to beat it.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: What Edition am I buying?

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by bhudson1972

So, I'm looking on a website, considering buying Le Havre.

I show Le Havre and Le Havre -including Le Grand Hameau. The one that includes Le Grand Hameau is a few dollars cheaper. Is this a no brainer? Would there be any reason to not by the Le Havre that includes the Le Grand Hameau expansion?

Thanks,

BHudson1972

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: What Edition am I buying?

Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Rules I have been playing wrong?

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by testcranker

Zark wrote:

negmon wrote:

LSMB wrote:

negmon wrote:

Thanks for the clarification and to shmello50 for the rule book look at. Always nice to know after playing a game for awhile and think you know what's going on to find out that's not the case. :blush:


I'm interested to see what you think of the game playing this way. I have a feeling it will be very different for you.


Me as well. It will make certain building more clogged up and strategy more flexible. I will have to try to pull it out again today to see.


A key buildings for blocking is often the first wharf, especially if one comes out a while before the second. An interesting aspect is that if you build (not buy) a wharf everyone else will get the opportunity to use it first


I use blocks on the marketplace, often before a special building gets flipped so the other player(s) cannot rearrange the order.

I also use blocks on the wharf but only when the steel ships arrive, if you plan it right, you can build one steel ship, hold and block the wharf until the next round and then move off it to the shipping lane and ship 30 pts worth of goods, buying the next steel ship before the other player(s) have a change to build it.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Seeking reassurance - there are other strategies, right?

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by testcranker

I found that the hardest thing about Le Havre initially was knowing what strategy to persure and how to use each round to get there.

After dozens or maybe even hundereds of games, the base strategy is clear now but that depends on the number of players. There is still some latitude for alternative paths or even a complete realignment of strategy as the game unfolds.

The biggest variables from game to game that affect overall strategy are the building sequence and the special buildings. I would say that in general the special buildings are going to offer the biggest advantages to any strategy, you really have to keep an eye on them as they appear and decide what to do about them being in the game. You cannot ignore them, IMHO.

Sometimes the specials can be used once or twice to augment the base strategy with a large infusion of goods or cash at just the right moment. I would say this is most often the case.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Seeking reassurance - there are other strategies, right?

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by jakespencer

I have probably 100 two-player plays of this game under my belt thanks to the iOS app. I always try to build as many of the cheap early buildings as possible and hopefully grab the Town Hall later in the game. Additionally, I try to build ships as early and often as possible. I also try to work to buy the Colliery and the Shipping Line. If I can grab the Cokery as well, that's gravy. I don't worry at all about feeding, ever. I'll usually stack up 8-15 loans and pay them off in the end. This usually scores 250-300 points (again, two player).

So, basically, what everyone else said.

New Image for Le Havre

New Image for Le Havre

New Image for Le Havre


Thread: Le Havre:: General:: Not really an "expansion" ?

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by davypi

So I saw something at the game store today labeled as an expansion for Le Havre. It was a bag that had 20 card sleeves and five "farmer" meeples. FLGS wanted $6 for it. Seems like a lot to spend for five pieces of wood and I'm not really sure what you would do with sleeves for exactly 20 cards. (I guess there are 20 round/boat cards, but if you're going to sleeve the game, you might as well sleeve the WHOLE game.) Has anybody else seen this? Is there something more to this "expansion" that is preventing me from seeing its worth?

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Not really an "expansion" ?

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by gillum

Here is what I see someone advertising on eBay:
In the spirit of token sets, Mayday Games has created a special collection of tokens and card sleeves just for The Harbour (Le Havre)! It includes 110 standard clear card sleeves (59 MM x 91 MM card sized), just the rare size that you needed, and 5 people tokens to replace your discs.

But that was for 110 sleeves, not 20.

My set actually came with more cards - the standard 110 plus the 30-odd more for Le Grand Hameau.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Not really an "expansion" ?

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by dtroy_de_rapcore

I've seen this many times. I think you're referring to Mayday Games sleeve set which contain 5 meeples to replace the 5 discs in the original game, as well as 110 sleeves for the base game.

Here's the link: http://maydaygames.com/harbour-le-havre-card-sleeves-set-110...

Like Gillum has said, note that the new edition of Le Havre now contains the expansion Le Grand Hameau, so you will need to buy additional sleeves for the expansion.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Not really an "expansion" ?

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Not really an "expansion" ?

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by lostphd

I picked up this when I picked up a backup copy of Le Havre (before the latest reprint - I was worried the game would be heading out of print) with the intention of creating an archival set of the base game (I don't play with Le Grand Hameau just yet).

I don't think it has any other uses. I like the discs and don't see how the meeples are an improvement.

I see the "expansion" as strictly for preservationists. I don't recommend it for active gamers.
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