by farmergiles
I don't class debt as a good thing, but I'm an accountant so that's normal! :P
There's "using" them and then there's deliberately ensuring you take 8-10 of the things without any concern for paying them off until the end of the game. It completely enabled a steamrolling of the endgame as ships eradicated his late-game need for food and generated more points per ship than most buildings in our cities that we'd spent precious actions building up.
I'm all for taking the odd loan here and there, but any bank that says "yeah go on, have even more loans on top of your old ones" is a little hard to believe.
I don't know the exact amount of loans, 10 might be too many, but I was talking on a rough basis, perhaps it was 8 or so. But I remember that the vast majority of his loan pile was offset by one single liner, so prob 8 loans as they are worth 34-36 points each right? Either way, it was a pretty easy method for getting rid of what should be a massive end-game scoring negative.
Mainly it's the interest rule. One franc each round no matter what, it's so insignificant when you're scoring 200+ points that it might as well not even be there. It needs to be one franc PER LOAN - that way loans are balanced out, ship spam is much harder to achieve, job sorted.
I played it more for the tradesmen aspect. I'm going to focus on fishing, or baking or mining steel or tanning hides etc. basically the interesting stuff. Shipping to me isn't interesting - yay I got a big ship and I put stuff on it. It's like train pick up and deliver games, they have zero interest for me as a theme. The ships were an afterthought, merely an alternative path to victory I could take (note I was taught the game in the early days so I never had to physically read the book again other than to reference key rules so I would have missed the part about the designer warning about avoiding ships entirely).
But it does make it seem more linear as a game now. Caverna and Fields of Arle wow me from Rosenberg because they allow for proper variety in paths to victory and choices of what role you want to play. Le Havre did that for me originally but my first many games were with players who didn't go nuts on loans. Now over time all I see is loan/ship spam winning games and it's a major put off, hence I went on my experiment mission to see if it was possible to win without ships/loans. Sadly it's not, 2nd place out of 3 is the best I could do but 2nd by a LONG margin.
I know a lot of it is on me, but it's not a nice feeling to have a game you originally loved, drop so much for you. Went on Top 100 before, then "just" fell off the next year, now I don't know if I even want to keep the game any more with Caverna/Arle and even to a lesser extent Odin offering more variety.