by davypi
Hi Jeff.Wanted to at least thank you and Joel for answering my question about variants even if it didn't get a lot of time, but did I have quick reply to something I think Joel said about people introducing variants to "fix" a game. I would agree that Le Havre is a game that doesn't need fixing and I often go through the same thought process when I see variants posted on other games. People are often trying to "fix" something in a game that they've not played through enough to realize it doesn't need a fix. I think the reason the variants came in my group is that a friend of mine played LH about 30-40 times in a span of two months and she wanted to do something to the game to break the usual strategies we had been using. In line with some of the comments you make in the postcast, you are correct in that variants can be tricky because they can unbalance the game. In particular, when you start adding more buildings to the game, the Town Hall and the Bank start to become overpowered buildings. We went through a lot of variants and had to throw stuff out to find the ones that were really worth keeping. Conversely, the variant of putting the black market into play after the first round sounds unbalanced, but after you've played it a few times and adjusted your gameplay to the change its not an unbalanced variant, but it is a variant that forces you create a different kind of balance. My point is, I've playtested a lot of variants and thrown quite a few of them out because of balance issues. The ones I suggest to others I tend to do so rather carefully.
At the end of the postcast you and Joel talk about why Uwe somehow gets a "pass" on making these typical resources conversion games and there is something I feel you may have overlooked. Something that is built into Uwe's designs that is very uncommon in resource games is the accumulation factor. For example, if nobody takes clay in an Uwe game, the resources build up. Other players get rewarded for your inaction. In contrast, when I look at all the worker placement games on my shelf (Stone Age, Egizia, Pillars, Caylus, etc.) there is nothing at all like this. If nobody digs for clay in Stone Age, the next person doesn't get more. Waterdeep has a couple of buildings that do this, but its not the norm. The closest example I can think of is TZolkin where, not so much you get rewarded for other's inaction, but you do get rewarded for patience before completing an action. So Uwe's games are not just resource conversion games. There is, for lack of a better term, a "push your luck" aspect in that if you wait to pick up a resource, it will be better the next round and you can do something else with your current action instead. But the better it gets, the more likely somebody is to cut you out of it. How far can you let that resource pile build up before you have to take it? It seems like such a small difference, but the effect that it has your decision making is huge one. Even the planting action in Agricola/Loyang are similar. Do you take the short term reward of using the vegetable now or the long term reward of getting more if you plant it?
Finally, I was kind of surprised to hear about your and Joel's disregard for wooden boats. I have another post somewhere here in the forums where I talk about the economy of buying/building boats. To be really brief about it, money equals VPs, since money replaces food during feeding, food (to a limited extent) are also VPs. Getting a wooden boat out on the third or fourth round actually comes out to 30-40 point gain depending on the player count. You can't get a better deal, anywhere, for five wood and a coal. I used to discount wooden boats as well, but I was taken to school on this issue by another player and have since learned the error of my ways. But I do think you're right in that getting that first iron boat is huge break compared to your first wooden boat and the brick sort of makes you pay extra for having first dibs on that privilege.
Great episode. I'll have to find the time to go through the archive.
