by gillum
F = francsReply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: 'x' F. on an resource token
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Performance Reviews - Feb 11 - Well, It Has Been a While
Well, it has been two months. Some of you may be wondering, where have I been? What have I been doing? Where are the Performance Reviews? Ok, probably no one but me is saying any of these things. But one day you will!
January was an interesting month. I was sick. A lot. The Flu. Nasty stuff, led to pneumonia, bronchitis, and a sinus infection. I like to get all of my respiratory infections out of the way early, so I can enjoy the rest of the year (if only it were so simple). We also do Role Playing on the first Tuesdays, and Chris has church obligations on the second Tuesdays, which make second Tuesdays questionable. February brought illness to Chris, then tons of ice and snow befell the Northeast, making traveling and game playing difficult at best.
But we did get one(!) night of gaming in during the month of January. We played a handful of filler games such as Slide 5, Maximum Throwdown, and Excape. We even got in a game of Die Säulen von Venedig, with 6, with which I have a strong opinion on. I'll share that, and the opinions of all the other games mentioned with my next post. I like to time travel like that.
As mentioned before, second Tuesdays are questionable due to Chris' church obligations (Chris provides us a place to gather and play games). So John and I decided to throw our own little get-together. These supplemental gatherings (we usually do these on Thursday) are nice because it gives John and me the opportunity to play those two-player, war and war-ish games that no one else ever wants to play.
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We started the night with a couple games of Pixel Tactics, which came out in 2013. It's a fun little tactical card game that plays pretty quick. The rules took a little bit to noodle, simply because of the way turns are broken down. Each Game is broken down into Rounds, each Round broken into Waves, each Wave into Turns, and each Turn a player has two Actions. Had it been broken down like this to begin with we probably wouldn't have had many issues. The other big rule we missed the first game was concerning damage and heroes dying. Heroes die at the end of a Wave, we missed that and were killing them (or healing them) at the end of each Round.
We really liked how each card had different abilities based on where the card was placed. There were also a lot of really neat synergies to be discovered, my favorite being a Dragon Mage in the Vanguard, and an Overlord in the Rear. Very powerful. John had a good combo going with his Leader and another guy that made his Vanguard attackers absolute beasts.
The second game didn't favor me so well. All my cards came up in a terrible order, while John had the benefit of a great opening hand and a Leader that could take advantage of it.
Verdict: I very much enjoyed Pixel Tactics. It is a light, quick, tactical card game that gives some of the same feelings as one of my all-time favorites, Summoner Wars. There are a lot of card synergies to be discovered, and a very large number of match-up possibilities. I also love how each player has an identical deck of cards, but the different combinations of Leaders, and putting Heroes in different ranks makes each deck play out so different.
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Hold the Line: Frederick's War was the other game that hit the table. Here we have what I call a "Tactical Skirmish War Game". This might not be the correct thing to call it, but I must confess ignorance concerning wargaming. Perhaps John has a better name for it.
Some other games that I consider "Tactical Skirmish War Game" would be Memoir '44 or Manoeuvre. Where both of those games use cards to kinda dictate which units you can move and order, Hold the Line: Frederick's War does not. You have the freedom to make any moves that you wish, but you get a variable amount of orders per turn, which is a bit different.
It could very well have been the scenario that we were playing (one with a famous general historically getting beat by a inferior army sitting on a hill (not a history person, John can correct me)), but I did not enjoy Hold the Line: Frederick's War as much as I enjoyed Memoir '44 or Manoeuvre, and not because it didn't start with the letter "M". Even though I was free to choose which units I was activating, I was not a huge fan of the odds I was having to hit units. Leaders seemed unimpressive. Artillery seemed very unimpressive. Needing a natural 6 to hit in nearly every regular situation proved frustrating, especially when most of John's units were on hills or in towns providing them with essentially +1 to defense (making their to-hit a 7, on 3*1d6). In my mind, this combat resolution did not reward tactical play, and an overall strategy is almost moot (other than "sit on a hill and don't move").
Verdict: I didn't hate the game, but I definitely didn't love it. If I want to play a "Tactical Skirmish War Game", I'd much rather play Memoir '44, Manoeuvre, or Commands & Colors: Ancients (I can't believe I forgot about C&C:A!) I'd much rather own one of these three than Hold the Line: Frederick's War. Maybe I'm not playing it right, or maybe it was the scenario's fault. Either way, I doubt I'll give this one another chance on my own doing.
We are now up to something like 310 games with 47 expansions. Slowly but surely will will make it through. Hopefully, we can outpace new acquisitions.
Next week: Le Havre&PitchCar, for real this time.
January was an interesting month. I was sick. A lot. The Flu. Nasty stuff, led to pneumonia, bronchitis, and a sinus infection. I like to get all of my respiratory infections out of the way early, so I can enjoy the rest of the year (if only it were so simple). We also do Role Playing on the first Tuesdays, and Chris has church obligations on the second Tuesdays, which make second Tuesdays questionable. February brought illness to Chris, then tons of ice and snow befell the Northeast, making traveling and game playing difficult at best.
But we did get one(!) night of gaming in during the month of January. We played a handful of filler games such as Slide 5, Maximum Throwdown, and Excape. We even got in a game of Die Säulen von Venedig, with 6, with which I have a strong opinion on. I'll share that, and the opinions of all the other games mentioned with my next post. I like to time travel like that.
As mentioned before, second Tuesdays are questionable due to Chris' church obligations (Chris provides us a place to gather and play games). So John and I decided to throw our own little get-together. These supplemental gatherings (we usually do these on Thursday) are nice because it gives John and me the opportunity to play those two-player, war and war-ish games that no one else ever wants to play.
We really liked how each card had different abilities based on where the card was placed. There were also a lot of really neat synergies to be discovered, my favorite being a Dragon Mage in the Vanguard, and an Overlord in the Rear. Very powerful. John had a good combo going with his Leader and another guy that made his Vanguard attackers absolute beasts.
The second game didn't favor me so well. All my cards came up in a terrible order, while John had the benefit of a great opening hand and a Leader that could take advantage of it.
Verdict: I very much enjoyed Pixel Tactics. It is a light, quick, tactical card game that gives some of the same feelings as one of my all-time favorites, Summoner Wars. There are a lot of card synergies to be discovered, and a very large number of match-up possibilities. I also love how each player has an identical deck of cards, but the different combinations of Leaders, and putting Heroes in different ranks makes each deck play out so different.
Some other games that I consider "Tactical Skirmish War Game" would be Memoir '44 or Manoeuvre. Where both of those games use cards to kinda dictate which units you can move and order, Hold the Line: Frederick's War does not. You have the freedom to make any moves that you wish, but you get a variable amount of orders per turn, which is a bit different.
It could very well have been the scenario that we were playing (one with a famous general historically getting beat by a inferior army sitting on a hill (not a history person, John can correct me)), but I did not enjoy Hold the Line: Frederick's War as much as I enjoyed Memoir '44 or Manoeuvre, and not because it didn't start with the letter "M". Even though I was free to choose which units I was activating, I was not a huge fan of the odds I was having to hit units. Leaders seemed unimpressive. Artillery seemed very unimpressive. Needing a natural 6 to hit in nearly every regular situation proved frustrating, especially when most of John's units were on hills or in towns providing them with essentially +1 to defense (making their to-hit a 7, on 3*1d6). In my mind, this combat resolution did not reward tactical play, and an overall strategy is almost moot (other than "sit on a hill and don't move").
Verdict: I didn't hate the game, but I definitely didn't love it. If I want to play a "Tactical Skirmish War Game", I'd much rather play Memoir '44, Manoeuvre, or Commands & Colors: Ancients (I can't believe I forgot about C&C:A!) I'd much rather own one of these three than Hold the Line: Frederick's War. Maybe I'm not playing it right, or maybe it was the scenario's fault. Either way, I doubt I'll give this one another chance on my own doing.
We are now up to something like 310 games with 47 expansions. Slowly but surely will will make it through. Hopefully, we can outpace new acquisitions.
Next week: Le Havre&PitchCar, for real this time.
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Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Question on when to take a loan
by kwcham
Hi,I have question in extend to this topic. What is the consequence of not able to take a loan (no more loan card available) and there is no building for me to sell, in order to pay for food or loan interest? The rules seem not cover on this aspect.
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Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Question on when to take a loan
by thuki
I think the loan cards are not meant to be limited. If you turn them around, they should have 3 loans on their back. That way you can have up to 33 loans in play. Should you still run out of loan cards then (I know some people play that way...), you just use something else for keeping track.↧
New Image for Le Havre
by xabieret
Customized storage for Le Havre with Home Accessories 120 ml boxes and bussiness card holders, general view
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New Image for Le Havre
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Thread: Le Havre:: Rules:: Get a Luxury Yacht in the final turn?!
by Dergel
Hi there,last time we played this game we wondered that the first player who can make the final turn can get the Luxury Yacht without any disadvantages (no delivery of food (the final food cession is before)/no selling), so he has 10 additional coins for sure (difference between the old ship and the luxury yacht). The only investment is to place his marker on the wharf.
Is our interpretation right, this seems to be a bit unfair for the other players.
Thank you for your help!
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Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Get a Luxury Yacht in the final turn?!
by sfox
Perfectly legal to build the Luxury Yacht on the final turn. At best that would be worth 18 points if you traded in the iron ship that is only worth 2 gold. Not a terrible play, but the most common move on a player's last action is to use the shipping line to sell 20 to 40 points worth of goods.↧
Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Get a Luxury Yacht in the final turn?!
by Orntt
Dergel wrote:
Hi there,
last time we played this game we wondered that the first player who can make the final turn can get the Luxury Yacht without any disadvantages (no delivery of food (the final food cession is before)/no selling), so he has 10 additional coins for sure (difference between the old ship and the luxury yacht). The only investment is to place his marker on the wharf.
Is our interpretation right, this seems to be a bit unfair for the other players.
Thank you for your help!
last time we played this game we wondered that the first player who can make the final turn can get the Luxury Yacht without any disadvantages (no delivery of food (the final food cession is before)/no selling), so he has 10 additional coins for sure (difference between the old ship and the luxury yacht). The only investment is to place his marker on the wharf.
Is our interpretation right, this seems to be a bit unfair for the other players.
Thank you for your help!
I'm not sure I understand the issue. You still have to build the yacht, which requires 3 steel and 3 energy, which requires some planning to get. Yes, someone gets first go at it, but someone has to, and there are 3 luxury liners, and different people will have first go at each one. In fact, the earlier liners are worth more points for the reason that if you get your act together and get the steel earlier, you should be rewarded for it.
Now if you're comparing the luxury liner vs. a steel ship, for example, its true that if you build them late the food contribution is pretty small. On the other hand, if you have at least one action remaining, a steel ship can produce a fair amount of money via the Shipping Line. In the final round, yes, the luxury liner is better. It's also more expensive by 1 steel, though, so it's not a straight comparison - obviously, the thing which costs more resources should be better.
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Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Get a Luxury Yacht in the final turn?!
by sfox
Orntt wrote:
Dergel wrote:
Hi there,
last time we played this game we wondered that the first player who can make the final turn can get the Luxury Yacht without any disadvantages (no delivery of food (the final food cession is before)/no selling), so he has 10 additional coins for sure (difference between the old ship and the luxury yacht). The only investment is to place his marker on the wharf.
Is our interpretation right, this seems to be a bit unfair for the other players.
Thank you for your help!
last time we played this game we wondered that the first player who can make the final turn can get the Luxury Yacht without any disadvantages (no delivery of food (the final food cession is before)/no selling), so he has 10 additional coins for sure (difference between the old ship and the luxury yacht). The only investment is to place his marker on the wharf.
Is our interpretation right, this seems to be a bit unfair for the other players.
Thank you for your help!
I'm not sure I understand the issue. You still have to build the yacht, which requires 3 steel and 3 energy, which requires some planning to get. Yes, someone gets first go at it, but someone has to, and there are 3 luxury liners, and different people will have first go at each one. In fact, the earlier liners are worth more points for the reason that if you get your act together and get the steel earlier, you should be rewarded for it.
Now if you're comparing the luxury liner vs. a steel ship, for example, its true that if you build them late the food contribution is pretty small. On the other hand, if you have at least one action remaining, a steel ship can produce a fair amount of money via the Shipping Line. In the final round, yes, the luxury liner is better. It's also more expensive by 1 steel, though, so it's not a straight comparison - obviously, the thing which costs more resources should be better.
The OP was not asking about a Luxery Liner, he said Luxery Yacht which is a completely different card (special building) that is worth 20 points. It costs nothing to build, you just trade in an iron ship to build the Luxery Yacht when you take the Wharf action.
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Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Get a Luxury Yacht in the final turn?!
by Dergel
sfox wrote:
Perfectly legal to build the Luxury Yacht on the final turn. At best that would be worth 18 points if you traded in the iron ship that is only worth 2 gold. Not a terrible play, but the most common move on a player's last action is to use the shipping line to sell 20 to 40 points worth of goods.
This was my third play ever and my first with the Luxury Yacht, so I´m no expert in this game, anyway I try to explain why I wondered:
It seems to me that the first player has a big advantage. He could go to the shipping line some turns before. Especially in the 2 player game it´s probable that you can do this. Like you said, it´s more common to go there on the final turn, so why should the players be there some turns before? If an opponent gets the luxury yacht earlier, this is no big deal and accordingly no problem for the first player, because the opponent has to accept the serious disadvantages.
If even this final turn-strategy is only "not a terrible play" for the first player, why should this player gets the luxury yacht earlier which impedes the final shipping line-strategy and increase the lack of foods?
I´m sure that I think wrong somehow, please correct me. =)
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Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Get a Luxury Yacht in the final turn?!
by Ponton
Dergel wrote:
Hi there,
last time we played this game we wondered that the first player who can make the final turn can get the Luxury Yacht without any disadvantages (no delivery of food (the final food cession is before)/no selling), so he has 10 additional coins for sure (difference between the old ship and the luxury yacht). The only investment is to place his marker on the wharf.
Is our interpretation right, this seems to be a bit unfair for the other players.
Thank you for your help!
last time we played this game we wondered that the first player who can make the final turn can get the Luxury Yacht without any disadvantages (no delivery of food (the final food cession is before)/no selling), so he has 10 additional coins for sure (difference between the old ship and the luxury yacht). The only investment is to place his marker on the wharf.
Is our interpretation right, this seems to be a bit unfair for the other players.
Thank you for your help!
Perfectly fine. If winning 10 or so francs with an action is the best he can do on his final turn, then he can do so. Usually, you should be able to do better than that.
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Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Get a Luxury Yacht in the final turn?!
by sfox
Dergel wrote:
sfox wrote:
Perfectly legal to build the Luxury Yacht on the final turn. At best that would be worth 18 points if you traded in the iron ship that is only worth 2 gold. Not a terrible play, but the most common move on a player's last action is to use the shipping line to sell 20 to 40 points worth of goods.
This was my third play ever and my first with the Luxury Yacht, so I´m no expert in this game, anyway I try to explain why I wondered:
It seems to me that the first player has a big advantage. He could go to the shipping line some turns before. Especially in the 2 player game it´s probable that you can do this. Like you said, it´s more common to go there on the final turn, so why should the players be there some turns before? If an opponent gets the luxury yacht earlier, this is no big deal and accordingly no problem for the first player, because the opponent has to accept the serious disadvantages.
If even this final turn-strategy is only "not a terrible play" for the first player, why should this player gets the luxury yacht earlier which impedes the final shipping line-strategy and increase the lack of foods?
I´m sure that I think wrong somehow, please correct me. =)
In a two player game you should be scoring 300+ points, and there are plenty of actions which are worth 10+ points, so while building the Luxury Yacht is somewhat above average that doesn't make it game breaking. It is just one option among many other options where a player could score around 20 points with their last action.
If you really feel it is that great to build it on the last turn, why not just build it on the 2nd to last turn to prevent your opponent from building it?
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Reply: Le Havre:: Rules:: Re: Get a Luxury Yacht in the final turn?!
The Luxury Yacht isn't some game-deciding card. Sometimes it doesn't even get built.
Think of it like a safe consolation prize: If any player doesn't have a better action that is worth 18 or however many points they'd get when they turn their worst ship into a Luxury Yacht (First player doesn't always have the 2-ship!), they can do that, so they have something useful to do at the end.
Especially in 2 player, it seems rare that both players even want the yacht, someone might be trying to get something else done and turned into money before time runs out.
If your problem is just that first player gets first pick of anything, that seems to be a problem with the very concept of firstness, but I don't think it's unbalanced.
Think of it like a safe consolation prize: If any player doesn't have a better action that is worth 18 or however many points they'd get when they turn their worst ship into a Luxury Yacht (First player doesn't always have the 2-ship!), they can do that, so they have something useful to do at the end.
Especially in 2 player, it seems rare that both players even want the yacht, someone might be trying to get something else done and turned into money before time runs out.
If your problem is just that first player gets first pick of anything, that seems to be a problem with the very concept of firstness, but I don't think it's unbalanced.
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Thread: Le Havre:: General:: Are we ready for Le Havre?
by saintlouis
Me and my GF are starting to play and buy games. We started with some easy ones (Ticket to Ride, Pandemic, Dominion, Galaxy Trucker) and then we jumped to others a little bit more complex (Android Netrunner , A Few Acres of Snow). Now we want to try some deeper ones. I feel very curious about Le Havre. I like the design, I like the theme, I heard wonderful things about it and it seems that works fine with 2 (usually its only me and my GF). But I’m worried about how difficult it is to learn it and to start enjoying it. We usually play at night, after a long day, we like the idea of trying deeper games but we are not the most patient couple when it comes to learn rules and having to play the game many times until we understand what’s going on. Would Le Havre be a good choice? And even if takes a while to understand, is it worth? In case you think it’s too early for us, what step in between do you think could shorten the distance for a later try? Thanks!!!↧
Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Are we ready for Le Havre?
by dkeisen
saintlouis wrote:
Me and my GF are starting to play and buy games. We started with some easy ones (Ticket to Ride, Pandemic, Dominion, Galaxy Trucker) and then we jumped to others a little bit more complex (Android Netrunner , A Few Acres of Snow). Now we want to try some deeper ones. I feel very curious about Le Havre. I like the design, I like the theme, I heard wonderful things about it and it seems that works fine with 2 (usually its only me and my GF). But I’m worried about how difficult it is to learn it and to start enjoying it. We usually play at night, after a long day, we like the idea of trying deeper games but we are not the most patient couple when it comes to learn rules and having to play the game many times until we understand what’s going on. Would Le Havre be a good choice? And even if takes a while to understand, is it worth? In case you think it’s too early for us, what step in between do you think could shorten the distance for a later try? Thanks!!!
Looks fine to me. It plays better with 3 than with 2, but it does work well for 2.
Only real challenge is not from a rules perspective, but a strategic one. On first play the number of options available on your turn after about halfway through the game can seem overwhelming. Once you've played a few times, you will recognize that generally only four or five of them are reasonable choices and have to be considered further, but that will not be clear your first game so the first game or two might take longer than you would like.
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Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Are we ready for Le Havre?
by Wheatie
If you can handle Netrunner and A Few Acres, I think you can handle Le Havre. A good way to learn it is through the How to Play Podcast--that's how I learned to play (it's episode 17).http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgamepodcast/7197/the-how-to-pl...
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Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Are we ready for Le Havre?
by DJStudley
I find that watching a run through can help a lot. You should check out:[user=Rahdo][/user]
Rahdo does videos focused on two players that are wonderful. Here's the one for Rahdo Runs Through Le Havre
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Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Are we ready for Le Havre?
by Syvanis
I think you be fine so far as difficulty, but personally, I would try Agricola over Le Havre.↧
Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Are we ready for Le Havre?
by LSMB
The rules are well written, and the game pretty forgiving (unless playing an experienced player :devil: ).It is more forgiving than Agricola, but still offers depth and entertaining choices.
Go for it!
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