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    0 0

    by Himuraken

    I install file (patch + basicfile + class + image) of course i am not forgot the lang.txt and login.txt but when i click on lehavre.jar, it's not running. Why ?

    thank for the job, le havre is one of my best boardgame and i have it in my collection and i will wish play online.

    thank for the help.

    0 0

    by DaveyJJ

    Perhaps the finest review I have ever read on BGG in my many years of being here. Just stunning.

    0 0

    by DaveyJJ

    When I opened the LGH cards I found an extra Shipping Line (standard) and Smelter (special) card in the package. Are those to be added to the regular decks or are they spares?

    0 0

    by DaveyJJ

    integrase wrote:

    Does anyone know if the expansion - Le Grande Hameau is available anywhere?
    It is still showing up on Lookout's direct order page, but I'm not sure they keep the page updated...

    It was included in the copy I bought less than a week ago at J&J in Waterloo, Ontario.

    To the OP, there are two copies (at least) left on their shelves.

    0 0

    by Yeoster

    I believe there were typos in an earlier edition of Le Havre, and these were meant to be replacements.

    Edit: Refer to this thread.

    0 0

    by DaveyJJ

    Makes sense. But the two (two) cards are identical in every respect.

    Maybe I have a reprint edition of the base game that got it right on the original cards?

    0 0

    by kcskedz

    DaveyJJ wrote:

    Makes sense. But the two (two) cards are identical in every respect.

    Maybe I have a reprint edition of the base game that got it right on the original cards?


    That is correct.

    0 0

    by NBAfan

    The thing I dislike about Ora is it seems much harder to see how well everyone is doing at a glance visually.

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    by Horrid Beast

    NBAfan wrote:

    The thing I dislike about Ora is it seems much harder to see how well everyone is doing at a glance visually.


    I see this as one of the game's strengths

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    by ggambill

    In this episode of The Long View, I'm very pleased to be joined by none other than [user=eekamouse][/user] as we discuss the game of Le Havre. Along the way, we compare this classic game to other Uwe Rosenberg games including Agricola and Ora et Labora. What has made Le Havre stand the test of time? Tune in and find out!

    The Long View is a proud member of The Dice Tower Network, and is thrilled to be sponsored by www.gamesurplus.com, the best online retailer you can find anywhere, where customer service is second to none. Thanks also, as always, to YOU for listening!

    Follow The Long View by liking us on Facebook, or through Twitter @Longviewpodcast

    The episode can be found here on the bgg podcast database, through iTunes, or at the link listed below:

    http://drivethruvideos.com/wp-content/podcasts/LongView/LeHa...

    0 0

    by davypi

    Hi Jeff.

    Wanted to at least thank you and Joel for answering my question about variants even if it didn't get a lot of time, but did I have quick reply to something I think Joel said about people introducing variants to "fix" a game. I would agree that Le Havre is a game that doesn't need fixing and I often go through the same thought process when I see variants posted on other games. People are often trying to "fix" something in a game that they've not played through enough to realize it doesn't need a fix. I think the reason the variants came in my group is that a friend of mine played LH about 30-40 times in a span of two months and she wanted to do something to the game to break the usual strategies we had been using. In line with some of the comments you make in the postcast, you are correct in that variants can be tricky because they can unbalance the game. In particular, when you start adding more buildings to the game, the Town Hall and the Bank start to become overpowered buildings. We went through a lot of variants and had to throw stuff out to find the ones that were really worth keeping. Conversely, the variant of putting the black market into play after the first round sounds unbalanced, but after you've played it a few times and adjusted your gameplay to the change its not an unbalanced variant, but it is a variant that forces you create a different kind of balance. My point is, I've playtested a lot of variants and thrown quite a few of them out because of balance issues. The ones I suggest to others I tend to do so rather carefully.

    At the end of the postcast you and Joel talk about why Uwe somehow gets a "pass" on making these typical resources conversion games and there is something I feel you may have overlooked. Something that is built into Uwe's designs that is very uncommon in resource games is the accumulation factor. For example, if nobody takes clay in an Uwe game, the resources build up. Other players get rewarded for your inaction. In contrast, when I look at all the worker placement games on my shelf (Stone Age, Egizia, Pillars, Caylus, etc.) there is nothing at all like this. If nobody digs for clay in Stone Age, the next person doesn't get more. Waterdeep has a couple of buildings that do this, but its not the norm. The closest example I can think of is TZolkin where, not so much you get rewarded for other's inaction, but you do get rewarded for patience before completing an action. So Uwe's games are not just resource conversion games. There is, for lack of a better term, a "push your luck" aspect in that if you wait to pick up a resource, it will be better the next round and you can do something else with your current action instead. But the better it gets, the more likely somebody is to cut you out of it. How far can you let that resource pile build up before you have to take it? It seems like such a small difference, but the effect that it has your decision making is huge one. Even the planting action in Agricola/Loyang are similar. Do you take the short term reward of using the vegetable now or the long term reward of getting more if you plant it?

    Finally, I was kind of surprised to hear about your and Joel's disregard for wooden boats. I have another post somewhere here in the forums where I talk about the economy of buying/building boats. To be really brief about it, money equals VPs, since money replaces food during feeding, food (to a limited extent) are also VPs. Getting a wooden boat out on the third or fourth round actually comes out to 30-40 point gain depending on the player count. You can't get a better deal, anywhere, for five wood and a coal. I used to discount wooden boats as well, but I was taken to school on this issue by another player and have since learned the error of my ways. But I do think you're right in that getting that first iron boat is huge break compared to your first wooden boat and the brick sort of makes you pay extra for having first dibs on that privilege.

    Great episode. I'll have to find the time to go through the archive.

    0 0

    by eekamouse

    I thought I commented that I liked wooden boats. I distinctly remember the last time I played putting an early boat to great use. It was something I had largely ignored on my previous plays but worked out well for me in that game, although it didn't lead to a victory but I was only behind by about 10 points I think. I will have to go back and listen and see what I said now!

    In terms of resource conversion, I do appreciate the stockpiling of resources, but to me the main problem with resource conversion games is the fixed value of everything. Cows, fish, coke, iron, etc... all have the same fixed value for every single game. It's true that every game may shake out differently. But, the problem for me is the fixed value. It's a complaint I saw bandied about quite a bit. I don't really hate it though. I just found it interesting that the Rosenberg trilogy seems immune to such comments. It's possible others have brought it up, but I haven't seen it.

    0 0

    by davypi

    eekamouse wrote:

    I thought I commented that I liked wooden boats. I distinctly remember the last time I played putting an early boat to great use.


    I may have misunderstood what you said. I was trying to review municipal bond transactions while I was listening. Not always easy to focus on details while I'm working.

    0 0

    by Trent Hamm (GamingTrent)

    Youtube Video

    I've decided to start doing lists of my top picks based on mechanisms and on genres, starting with perhaps my favorite mechanism, worker placement.

    For those unfamiliar, a worker placement game is one that utilizes a "mechanic requires players to draft individual actions from a set that is available to all players. Drafting is done one-at-a-time and in turn order. Once drafted, an action can no longer be taken until a subsequent turn or until the action space is no longer occupied by a worker" (according to BGG's definition).

    Thus, any game on this list will use this worker placement mechanism and usually will use other mechanisms along with it.

    This list has two elements to the order in which I chose them. One, how much do I enjoy the game? Two, how well does it actually use the worker placement mechanism?

    1. Agricola is a medieval farming themed game for one to five players, designed by Uwe Rosenberg, published by Z-Man Games, and playable in about thirty minutes per player. I think Agricola is the pinnacle of worker placement games. It has a wonderful tension of never feeling like you have enough workers to do everything you want to do, plus there's the added tension of blocking other players out of key spots. The Minor Improvements and Occupations add enough player power variety to make each game feel different - and if those decks ever get old, there are eight or so additional ones in existence. I include Agricola: All Creatures Great and Small here as a shorter two player version of Agricola because it very much captures the same feel in a two player only version of the game.

    2. Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar is a Mayan themed game for two to four players, designed by Simone Luciani and Daniele Tascini, published by Rio Grande Games, and playable in about an hour and a half. Tzolk'in's well-known gear "gimmick" (in which gears take up most of the board) is more than just a gimmick, as it creates a lot of challenging decisions about where to place your workers and whether or not the moment is ripe to pull them off the gears. I was concerned whether this game would hold up to extensive play, but the variable chits for starting powers and the large number of avenues you can take for success in this game have given it very long legs, indeed. I did an in-depth video review of Tzolk'in a while back, as well as a written review.

    3. Belfort is a light fantasy themed game for two to five players, designed by Jay Cormier and Sen-Foong Lim, published by Tasty Minstrel Games, and playable in about two hours. Belfort works as a great mix of worker placement and area control game, because a large part of what you do to earn points is to control regions and locations on the board. The variety of guilds helps this game from becoming too static as well.

    4. Le Havre is a merchant-themed game for one to five players, designed by Uwe Rosenberg, published by Lookout Games, and playable in about thirty minutes per player. For me, Le Havre is something of an "economic engine" game, as you have to really build up your resources throughout the game to earn those big victory point cards at the end of the game. The function of buildings as both an investment in victory points and as a potential revenue stream is perhaps my favorite facet, as key early buildings can both earn you vital resources and contribute to your end-game point total. The largely random order of said buildings gives the game significant variety from play to play.

    5. Copycat is a politically themed game for two to four players, designed by Friedemann Friese, published by Rio Grande Games, and playable in about an hour and a half. Given that this game blatantly "borrows" mechanisms from Agricola, Dominion, and Through the Ages, I expected this game to feel like a gimmick, but it actually comes together quite well. The mix of the Through the Ages row order, the Dominion method of deckbuilding, and Agricola-style placement of workers ends up creating difficult decisions throughout, and the semi-random ordering of the cards and the locations adds to the uncertainty and tension. I did an in-depth video review of Copycat a while back, as well as a written review.

    6. Ora et Labora is a monastery building game for one to five players, designed by Uwe Rosenberg, published by Z-Man Games, and playable in about thirty minutes per player. This game feels reasonably similar to Le Havre (mentioned earlier on this list) to me, but stands apart thanks to the use of a rondel for distributing the resources in the game. I have not played Ora et Labora as extensively as the higher choices on this list, but I've deeply enjoyed each play of it so far.

    7. The Manhattan Project is a scientist-themed game for two to five players, designed by Brandon Tibbetts, published by Minion Games, and playable in half an hour to an hour and a half depending on player count. The Manhattan Project is a winner for me because of the fun theme and the surprisingly quick play for two players, along with the fact that it almost feels like a different game with five players versus two.

    8. Lords of Waterdeep is a lightly-themed game set in the "Forgotten Realms" universe for two to five players, designed by Peter Lee and Rodney Thompson, published by Wizards of the Coast, and playable in about an hour. This is my standard "introduction to worker placement" choice as it does a brilliant job of introducing the mechanism of worker placement to new players. I find the base game to be a bit dull for me as a frequent game player, but the expansion Scoundrels of Skullport has breathed new life into this game for me. I did an in-depth video review of Lords of Waterdeep a while back, along with a written review.

    9. Kingsburg is a medieval themed game for two to five players, designed by Andrea Chiarvesio and Luca Iennaco, published by Fantasy Flight Games, and playable in about an hour. This mixes worker placement with a "technology tree" of sorts that each player must develop on their own using the proceeds of the worker placement choices. The use of dice as workers and how the roll of the dice influences where you can place (along with blocking) is a key part of the joy of Kingsburg.

    10. Alien Frontiers is a space exploration game for two to four players, designed by Tory Niemann, published by Clever Mojo Games, and playable in about an hour. For me, Alien Frontiers is the most brutal of the worker placement games I play frequently, as the number of available spots is relatively low and some of the options allow you to do devastating things to other players. I generally play this only with my more cut-throat friends, but when I do so, I always find it a deeply enjoyable experience.

    For those who prefer Geeklists, I've also posted this list in Geeklist format at Top Ten Worker Placement Games

    0 0

    by framebrain

    eekamouse wrote:

    I thought I commented that I liked wooden boats. I distinctly remember the last time I played putting an early boat to great use. It was something I had largely ignored on my previous plays but worked out well for me in that game, although it didn't lead to a victory but I was only behind by about 10 points I think. I will have to go back and listen and see what I said now!

    In terms of resource conversion, I do appreciate the stockpiling of resources, but to me the main problem with resource conversion games is the fixed value of everything. Cows, fish, coke, iron, etc... all have the same fixed value for every single game. It's true that every game may shake out differently. But, the problem for me is the fixed value. It's a complaint I saw bandied about quite a bit. I don't really hate it though. I just found it interesting that the Rosenberg trilogy seems immune to such comments. It's possible others have brought it up, but I haven't seen it.


    Joel - in regards to resource conversion, are you saying that it would be "cooler" if the starting value of resources were different at the start of each game? I'm thinking something similar to the rounds in Hawaii (albeit only changed at the start of each game). Is that what I am reading from your statement?

    0 0

    by eekamouse

    framebrain wrote:

    eekamouse wrote:

    I thought I commented that I liked wooden boats. I distinctly remember the last time I played putting an early boat to great use. It was something I had largely ignored on my previous plays but worked out well for me in that game, although it didn't lead to a victory but I was only behind by about 10 points I think. I will have to go back and listen and see what I said now!

    In terms of resource conversion, I do appreciate the stockpiling of resources, but to me the main problem with resource conversion games is the fixed value of everything. Cows, fish, coke, iron, etc... all have the same fixed value for every single game. It's true that every game may shake out differently. But, the problem for me is the fixed value. It's a complaint I saw bandied about quite a bit. I don't really hate it though. I just found it interesting that the Rosenberg trilogy seems immune to such comments. It's possible others have brought it up, but I haven't seen it.


    Joel - in regards to resource conversion, are you saying that it would be "cooler" if the starting value of resources were different at the start of each game? I'm thinking something similar to the rounds in Hawaii (albeit only changed at the start of each game). Is that what I am reading from your statement?


    No actually. I think it would be interesting if the values (prices) were more dictated by the players. Off the top of my head a few games that do this: New Amsterdam, The Great Zimbabwe, and other "games with auctions". After that you start to move into stock games or venture into other mechanisms like area control to get away from just converting one thing into another into points as "economy".

    Again, I'm not saying I dislike this part of Le Havre. :)

    0 0

    by The Sacred Voice

    One of my gaming partners suggested playing Le Havre this weekend and I know my parents have a copy that I've never bothered to learn how to play, so over the last three hours I read the rules and played a full solo game so I'd be better prepared for this weekend.

    I don't know if it's really possible to "crush" this game when you're only playing solo, but the gameplay became really redundant pretty much from the second round onward. The opening building spread showed the Marketplace, Bakehouse and Fishery. Not knowing what to really be aiming for I thought I should aim to at least get some food together to feed my workforce at the end of the round. Trying to keep my options open in the mean time then I built the Marketplace and used my next turn to collect some resources and took a look at the top special cards. The Clothing Industry and the Fish Restaurant presented itself to me - the Fish Restaurant you say? I thought. I looked at the Restaurant and saw that building the Marketplace had revealed the Smokehouse. This was it, I knew it, I had never played before and knew that I was meant to do something involving boats and shipping things off through the Shipping Line but what was the point when Le Havre's culinary experts cried out for fish? I immediately obtained the leftover fish from the offer, built the Smokehouse, smoked the fish with my last wood and got myself in a position to get the Fishery as soon as possible.

    And that was it, from that round onwards I alternated visiting the Fishery, Smokehouse and Fish Restaurant to my heart's delight. To spice things up I would occasionally take more wood from the offer to ensure I had a steady supply of fuel for smoking my fish, or I'd take an enormous build up of fish in the offer and smoke my way through that while alternating with other actions that I thought I should be doing but weren't really helping my score. I finally built up so much fish that the bag was running out and I didn't want to fuss with the "5x" tokens that I remembered the rule book mentioning, (incidentally I scoffed at those tokens when I first read about them, never imagining I would need them in my very first game), so I hit the Fish Restaurant and picked up 96 Francs. Over the next few rounds I did it again. I sold so much fish that diners in Le Havre must've been dying for ANYTHING else.

    One round (about round 4 or so I think) I began to feel like I wasn't really playing the game but wasn't sure how to progress as the buildings in the offer were only infrequently changing now that I'd stopped building/buying them. So I decided to build the Wharf and build a ship through that (though I had so much money I could've just bought one and saved myself the actions for more fishing). Doing so meant finding some bricks, but the Kiln had shown up from the Special Buildings so I was like "Hell just buy it, why not?" and got myself some bricks. I had this vague delusion that I would need all these ships in the end game when the Shipping Line showed up and I would ship off all my junk resources that I had somehow acquired along the way. That end game never came though as the Shipping Line was stacked another two buildings down and I wasn't about to build the Abattoir or the Clay Mound just to get to it.

    Aside from wasting time on the Wharf and all the actions that went into building a ship then I could've saved even more money for my score if I'd realised a round or two earlier that paying the food upkeep with my Smoked Fish was actually a silly proposition when they were worth 3 Francs each when sold at the Fish Restaurant. Incidentally, was this the only restaurant in town? How on earth were they shifting this much fish so fast? I'm pretty sure my supply was outpacing demand by a country mile

    I appreciate that I got insanely lucky seeing the Fish Restaurant so early on but the entirety of my game plan pretty much orbited around that. Obviously I assume that with more players then such a plan might not have come together quite as fortuitously, but it does make me wonder how future games will go. I don't think I really got a taste of the real Le Havre gameplay at all, but at least I have the rules down pat

    Please do contribute any thoughts you have!

    0 0

    by taragalinas

    The Sacred Voice wrote:

    Incidentally, was this the only restaurant in town? How on earth were they shifting this much fish so fast?


    It is questions like this that make boardgamers awesome to be around. :D

    0 0

    by cmarkboy

    It was fun to read your session report of the first solo game you had, so thanks! Regarding your question, I will say that you are correct to summise that the fish strategy won't work so well in a multiplayer game. In my experience, fish is an important primary resource that is unique, as no other primary (non-Franc) resource can be used as food without processing them into secondary resources first. Consequently, fish is a popularly sought-after primary resource, particularly in the early stages of the game.

    Having said that, I personally find Le Havre to be an excellent economic worker placement game that I enjoy playing very much, whether face-to-face or on iOS. It's one of my favourite Eurogames for sure! ;)

    0 0

    by wamboyil

    Now in stock at coolstuffinc.com, according to their website.

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