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    by Ballyman91

    They are only for buildings. If you want to build ships you have to use the wharf.

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    by Makis mou

    Yes but Private Sawmill and Wooden Crane are not meant to be entered. They give you privilages when you build. My question is if you can use these advantages when you enter the wharf.

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    by Mike Mayer

    For the wooden crane, it's a no (number 89):

    http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/45371/item/1182473#item118...

    Not sure about the other one.

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    by kevinmcgillivray

    UnknownParkerBrother wrote:

    kevinmcgillivray wrote:

    Word of advice, play the short version first. I was subjected to the full game (20 rounds or so) with 4 other players for my first game and it was a freakin' death march. :-)


    There's a reason this is printed on the first page of the manual. - "We only recommend the 5-player game for experienced “Le Havre” players."

    They tell you up front it's a 4 hour game, it's supposed to be a death march, specifically designed for those who like death marches. :D


    Yeah, that part was never told to me. It was more like "Le Havre is awesome. Let's all play it!" and I (rather stupidly, apparently) went along with it. :) I was more than a few turns in before I concluded that it was going to be a miserable experience and didn't want to bow out and break the game for everyone else. I would play it again but I've got many other games I would rather play so I won't be the one suggesting it.

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    by Neo_1

    Thunkd wrote:

    Yes, you may pay off the loan for 5 francs. In the section that deals with the final action it says you take a final action and that players may still pay off loans and sell buildings.


    Thanks! Don't know why I missed this in the rules.

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    by Karlsen

    kevinmcgillivray wrote:


    Glad you got your copy. I hope you like this game more than I did. Word of advice, play the short version first. I was subjected to the full game (20 rounds or so) with 4 other players for my first game and it was a freakin' death march. :-)


    Unless it was five newbies somebody should have pointed out that the rules specifically say that new players should definitely not play five player (and I should read all the posts before replying!)

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    by BilboAtBagEnd

    My first experience with Agricola was a very bad one. Note to folks: if you want someone to like a game, you should probably not throw them into it without explaining the rules. Especially if you're going to use the advanced rules and the Komplex deck.

    "I have to feed TWO food to each of my family members?"

    "Yes, so you get three begging cards this turn."

    "Hey, we've run out of begging cards."

    "I guess we need to make note of how many extra cards you'd get."

    "How do I get food?"

    "You'll figure it out."

    "What do you mean I get negative points for not using up all the spaces on my farm? And for not having animals?"

    "What are these cards in my hand?"

    "You'll figure it out."

    So I scored -15 points in the end. Or was it more negative than that? I was very sad and frustrated, and stayed away from Agricola for years.

    One day much later I ran into Agricola: All Creatures Big and Small, and thought, this seems like an easier game. Shorter, concentrating on raising animals (which is very cute), and without the pressing need for feeding your people. And so I began to play it (mostly solo, using this simple yet effective variant). I enjoyed it immensely and got much better at the game.

    Meanwhile, I was playing other Uwe Rosenberg games, starting with Le Havre, and continuing with Ora et Labora and Le Havre: The Inland Port. And I thought: perhaps I should try Agricola again. After all, it's quite popular, and... perhaps I could start slowly with a solo game in family mode and build up from there. To encourage enjoyment I also got Agricola: The Goodies Expansion for the shaped supply meeples, and some more decks for variety's sake.

    So last night I started my first solo game, using the family version. And it was quite fun! At first my greatest concern was food, but I got the hang of feeding my family and even built up to all five members in a 5-room stone house! My biggest stumble was forgetting to include some cows and leaving some crops in the last game instead of eating them all.

    I'm quite fond of my first farm.



    The game didn't even take that long, at least not solo. I'm so pleased.

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    by GarrettZ

    for the record, I played this game with Kevin and enjoyed it. :p I think he is crazy for trying to "give" this away.

    It was a bit long though...we should have played the short version.

    Also, I think the IOS version really helps learn the rules in a quick way.

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  • 03/26/13--20:02: New Image for Le Havre
  • by MikeMc17

    Mom and Franklin playing Le Havre

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    by kevinmcgillivray

    GarrettZ wrote:

    for the record, I played this game with Kevin and enjoyed it. :p I think he is crazy for trying to "give" this away.

    It was a bit long though...we should have played the short version.

    Also, I think the IOS version really helps learn the rules in a quick way.


    Dude, stop stalking me! :p

    I shouldn't say I hate the game; I just didn't enjoy my first play. If I had gone into it with better expectations, I probably would have appreciated it more. I'll definitely play it couple more times so I can give it a fair shake but only if someone else suggests it. That said, my copy is getting shipped off to Spain tomorrow to someone who will appreciate it more than me.

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    by BilboAtBagEnd

    So I've played Agricola four times in the past four days. It's been a comfort when I was sick, and a comfort when I was well, and a comfort when I was tired. For some reason it's even more addictive for me than Le Havre, and actually reminds me of the days when I was addicted to Magic: The Gathering, and even farther back, when I was addicted to Chess. Heck, at one point I was even addicted to Caylus, and that's quite a game to get addicted to.

    This series of games made me think: what makes for an addictive game? Not every game has its addicts, but neither is the quality limited to what hard-core gamers generally like---you just have to play Ticket to Ride online to see the addiction at work with gateway games.

    In summary, this is what I've come up with. Every "rule" here probably has its exception, like most things involving human beings.

    1. The game must be easily available for play. This, in general, rules out games that can't find a consistent audience in your play circles, in person or online---even if, for certain games, the consistent audience is you. I think this is where Uwe Rosenberg is particularly genius---the entire big box Harvest series (and Le Havre) can be played solo. And I'm thinking about my addiction to The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game, which also can play relatively well solo provided you have a good card pool and experience under your belt.

    This also explains why otherwise not particularly addictive games can suddenly take on addictive qualities when they become available on mobile devices, particularly with a pool of online opponents. I've played quite a few games of Lost Cities on my iPhone, and that's not a game I thought I would ever get addicted to. Ditto for Ascension, which has actually taken over Dominion for me in terms of addiction ever since the iPhone version descended.

    2. The game's interface, as an application or as cardboard and wood and plastic, must be useable. Note that I'm not saying that the game has to be pretty---although that can certainly help move addiction along---I'm saying the game has to be usable enough that you don't get frustrated trying to play it. While this can take the form of good icons, non-confusing text, and an excellently laid-out rulebook, I think its most powerful form is when the mechanics and theme naturally fit each other. Agricola is particularly powerful in this aspect; you pen in your animals, you sow your fields, you build your house, and all of these non-abstract actions are point-scoring opportunities.

    As well, many war games yield this mixture between mechanics and theme.

    3. The game must, in general, give you enough decisions that you feel you're on the cusp of doing better the next time---without overwhelming the majority of the target audience. Yes, even Ticket to Ride gives you this control---picking tickets, knowing the ticket deck and especially car distribution; it's really similar to the Rummy family of games, and those can be quite addictive. And Agricola especially gives you enough control that you know you can improve each game. And the just-barely-failures serve to drive you forwards more often than the successes, oddly enough (this is actually a phenomenon seen in studies).

    Of course, there is an exception to this---slots or games involving pure luck can still stimulate some folks into gambling addictions. At the very least, though, this operates on the "every failure drives you to persist on the path of possible payout".

    These are just my observations, and I'm sure I'm leaving out vital characteristics for addiction. So what additional characteristics do you think leave ample opportunities for addiction?

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  • 03/28/13--20:08: New Image for Le Havre
  • by LiteBulb88

    Skycam shot of the action

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  • 03/29/13--09:42: New Image for Le Havre
  • by LiteBulb88

    Joe excited that the Smokehouse he really needed to complete his strategy opened up just before his turn.

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    by huffa2

    Thinking of getting the game solely from your review. Well done!

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    by lostphd

    UnknownParkerBrother wrote:

    Icelom wrote:

    We only have the one shop here in Saskatoon it does have great selection and the owner is very helpful and it generally carries everything i have ever wanted. Le Havre appears to be completely sold out in Canada (yay)


    Not sure where you've been looking, it's in stock at both Meeplemart.com and Fungamescafe.com, two of the main Canadian sites.

    http://www.meeplemart.com/products/le-havre-1
    http://fungamescafe.com/fgcIndex.php?command=showgame&gameId...


    Thanks for this information. Fungames is now showing it as out of stock but there are still copies at Meeplemart. I have contacted them to see if I can get my backup copy.

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    by jauggy

    rrrrupp wrote:

    Good point. I'm thinking mostly for the 3 player game.

    Also, I realize there's a good amount of variation early game with plenty of viable options. It just seems that once the colliery hits, things get a bit... predictable?

    I agree with this sentiment and I also play with three players. I love the early part of Le Havre. But end game it does become predictable. I'm tempted to just take off the three last round cards so that the game is shorter and we don't have to do the boring, predictable part where everyone rotates around colliery, cokery and shipping line.

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    by Anarchosyn

    Simple question:

    When one goes to build a ship, and the type of ship they opt to build (or purchase) has multiple values present, is it down to choice as to which is adopted, or is it based more on the hierarchy/order of reveal?

    Up until now I had assumed it was up to choice, and later purchases were rewarded with a higher value due to the increased hardships implicit in acquiring a ship later than soon. However, having just played my first three player game, I was surprised to see the final Luxury Liner having a value 4 Francs less than the penultimate option (round 17: $34, round 18: $30). If my initial assumption was correct, what is the purpose of revealing a lower valued item in the final round?

    We were perplexed as to whether a player could opt to purchase the 34 Frank Liner in the final action, despite the fact the 30 version was still present for purchase. She opted to ignore the option, and ship instead... but we'd love some clarity on whether she could have purchased it.

    If so, why reveal a lower cost option afterwards... if not, where in teh rules does it touch on this?

    Thanks, one and all.

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    by UnknownParkerBrother

    Anarchosyn wrote:

    Simple question:

    When one goes to build a ship, and the type of ship they opt to build (or purchase) has multiple values present, is it down to choice as to which is adopted, or is it based more on the hierarchy/order of reveal?


    There are no "multiple values" present. The ships are in one stack, and the only ship you can build is the one you can see.

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    by davypi

    Anarchosyn wrote:

    .. later purchases were rewarded with a higher value due to the increased hardships implicit in acquiring a ship later than soon.


    Actually, its the opposite. Its more difficult to build them early as resources are more scarce. Unless you have a healthy competition, the early ones are the hardest to build. The reason for the point differential has to do with the food reward. Assume a 3P game. A wooden ship acquired on round 4 will provide 15 rounds of free food - netting 45 food. A wooden ship acquired on round 6 will provide 13 rounds or 39 food which is three more food. The point differential is there to offset the fact you get less food from the boat. If you factor in the food benefits of each boat, earlier boats actually are worth more than later boats of the same type. You're just focused on the number in the gold coin instead of the overall benefit.

    why reveal a lower cost option afterwards


    Luxury liners are different from other boats in that they do not provide any benefits other than the points. You cannot ship with them nor do they provide food. Again, returning to the idea that the necessary resources are more scarce earlier in the game, the higher point reward for the first boat rewards the player who can get there first. This, of course, gets a little weird because if the first lux liner is not built, a second one covers it up, making the second build less valuable than the first. Its probably the only mechanism of the game that I don't like, but I've also never seen anybody lose the game because of the build order of lux liners, so its not worth fretting over.

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    by portlandslacker

    The iOS version is a great way to learn the game, and, as mentioned, a good surrogate when no actual people are around.

    Drawbacks: various bugs have been reported (Right now, playing online, everytime I come to the end of a round, I CANNOT switch to another Le Havre game in progress ... instead, I have to wait until the other players take their turns to feed their workers!) and the AI is pretty horrible (I had it on the highest setting and I think I had twice the score of the AI in second place ... both AI opponents were ignoring the benefits of the special buildings in play and doggedly focusing on the standard coal-and-steel strategy ... I crushed them like robotic bugs).

    But is it worth five bucks? Absolutely!

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