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Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Differences between Z-Man and Mayfair editions of Le Havre

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by Soeren_Lookout

Sometimes I really wonder, where people "hear" things...

The Revised edition has the same content as the Z-Man edition + (depending on what exact version of Z-Man) additional cards. In other words, the Mayfair edition has all cards ever released for Le Havre.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Differences between Z-Man and Mayfair editions of Le Havre

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by grant5

Soeren_Lookout wrote:

Sometimes I really wonder, where people "hear" things...

The Revised edition has the same content as the Z-Man edition + (depending on what exact version of Z-Man) additional cards. In other words, the Mayfair edition has all cards ever released for Le Havre.

Possibly getting it confused with the Mayfair release of Agricola, which did drop tons of cards? Who knows.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Differences between Z-Man and Mayfair editions of Le Havre

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by Dark_Knight

I own (and have played) original version forever. I played the new version the other night and the only difference I recalled was that the 3-section board is 'fold-out' style in the newer version and comes as 3 separate boards in the original.

Once the bends in the fold-out learn to stay down, it is likely the better version....

Only diff I noticed.

Review: Le Havre:: Le Harve - A Review

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by morris9597

This was an almost completely blind purchase that I grabbed on a whim while I was at Origins this past June. All I knew of the game is that it is well liked here on BGG.

The game's premise is that players run businesses in a young port town in late 19th, early 20th century France.

Each turn begins with players placing 2 goods on their respective "Offer" spaces, with the goods placed being determined by the player's space on the board. The player may then either take all the goods in one of the offer spaces or use one of the buildings owned by the town or another player.

In addition, players may also buy buildings and ships as part of their turns, without the purchase interfering with their main action.

The object of the game is to be the richest player at the end of a set number of rounds, as determined by player count. Wealth is calculated by both cash on hand and the value of ships and buildings.

The following is a succinct, but more detailed overview of the game if you'd like to learn more: Item for Geeklist "Top 100 Game Overviews"

The leap frog mechanic with only one player able to occupy a given board space keeps the game moving. And with only one player at a time able to occupy any given building, the blocking inherent in the game lends it a bit of personal conflict. I also love the fact that not only is there no hidden information, but the rules actually forbid players from hiding their wealth. The reason I like this so much is that players can see the wealth that their opposition is building and gives a sense of urgency and leads to a bit more competitive play. Ultimately, the game is like a highly interactive sandbox. Everyone is kind of doing their own thing, but you can use each other's buildings so just because you were unable to buy the wharf doesn't preclude you from using it to build ships. It's just that now you have to pay your opponent to use it.

I really love this game! It sets up in about 10 minutes, less if you have the little bowls for all the chits, and takes an average of 1 hour per person to play. It's a very easy game to learn and teach and yet, the strategy is surprisingly deep.

I don't think I'll have any trouble getting this back to the table.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Differences between Z-Man and Mayfair editions of Le Havre

Reply: Le Havre:: Reviews:: Re: Le Harve - A Review

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by SDSUChemTA

Nice overview. I agree that if you have containers for the chits, setup is quick. By the way, I like your Flyers logo. I own a Ron Hextall jersey.

Games for Friends and Lovers -- A short discussion on play balancing co-op games

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by Harvey Cornell



Now that we at Dragon Phoenix Games (DragonPhoenixGames.com) have started releasing our co-op game adaptations (including Catan, Carcassonne, and Karuba) as part of our Games for Friends and Lovers series (http://www.dragonphoenixgames.com/friends-and-lovers]), I thought I should talk a little bit about how we approach play-balancing these games and how that relates to the balance of the competitive games they are based upon.

There are different aspects of game balance. One is that the various game mechanics are balanced. This is usually all you have to worry about in a competitive game design because the other kind of game balance has to do with how hard it is to win the game. Usually, the game mechanics aspect of play balance should have been addressed by the original designer. Usually they have done a pretty good job and I don’t mess with that unless it is necessary to support the shift to co-op play. This is an important consideration in a co-operative game but game-winning difficulty of a competitive game is mostly tied to the skill and experience of the players. You can only adjust that by playing with different people or getting more experience. In my opinion, there is a related aspect in competitive games that is often referred to as “tightness”. Here we are referring to how hard it is to accomplish things in the game. An example might be that it is very difficult to get enough money or a resource to do a certain thing. A good example of that is Grand Austria Hotel. I rarely feel like I have enough money in that game. It is very tight. Some other games that I feel are very tight include Le Havre and Agricola.

Some games play even tighter in the co-op mode than in the competitive mode such as Castles of Burgundy. The tightness of others seems to be unaffected by the transition to our co-op versions such as with Lords of Waterdeep, Tzolk’in, or Bruges. The game mechanics play balance is usually addressed by the original design, but one good example where this changes quite a bit is Le Havre. Although the game plays very tight in competitive mode, when we made our co-op adaptation we discovered that the access to resources loosened up quite a bit just due to the fact that we were cooperating rather than competing. The play balance of the co-operative adaptation had to be adjusted to take this into account.

Many games, while still retaining most of the feel of the original competitive game, cause the players to think about some entirely new problems and/or old problems in new ways to adapt to the co-op versions. Some good examples of that are our adaptations for Above and Below,Viticulture, and Splendor. In Above and Below, the players must think about how to get an array of goods to meet the game objective. In Viticulture, the players are racing to complete enough orders to avoid a premature loss before they can get their game engines up and running well. In Splendor, the players must figure out how to get two players to the winning point total while usually having to actively block the dummy player.

When balancing how winnable a co-op game is, we have used a rule-of-thumb that the players should be able to win about 25-50% of the time. Lower than that and the players get too discouraged. Higher than that and the game will not seem challenging enough to draw the players back. But on top of that, our adaptations are designed with the assumption that the players will actively and not just passively co-operate. Passive co-operation occurs when players are playing together but playing to maximize their own game, not giving much consideration to what is in the greater interest of the team. We have seen that type of co-operative play in others. In all likelihood, you will not win our co-op designs by playing that way. The players need to be thinking about how their actions affect not only their own play but the play of others.

If you play our co-op adaptations of games and find yourself losing almost all the time, then you might step back and see if the players are doing a good job of actively cooperating. If not, then maybe that is where you need to work to get better. But regardless, most of our game adaptations include a section on how to adjust the difficulty. If you are not having the desired experience with the game because it is too easy or too hard, you should make use of these adjustments to change the game balance to what works best and is both challenging and fun for you and your fellow gamers.

With all that said about play balancing these games, the most interesting thing about these co-op adaptations is that it should, if played right, force the players to interact with each other more than they ever would in regular competitive play versions. That is what makes these adaptations especially fun. Winning – or even losing – together is truly fun. My motto is “A sorrow shared is a sorrow halved – a joy shared is a joy doubled”.

Thread: Le Havre:: General:: What are some winning strategies for Le Havre?

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by jcgonzmo

What should I aim for in a game? Build a certain building? Accumulate loans? Get wood?

Thread: Le Havre:: General:: Somethings to keep in mind for my first game?

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by jcgonzmo

Playing with my gf for the first time. What are things people usually get wrong or are hard to get in the first game?

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Somethings to keep in mind for my first game?

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by Raujour

Like a good professor, I'll leave it to the student to work out the proof:

1) You do not get the same number of actions each round. Be aware of how many actions per round you have as the end approaches.
2) Don't buy an excessive number of ships just for the purpose of food.
3) Not moving your worker can be more important than a weak action.
4) Don't lightly skip the end-game points buildings.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Somethings to keep in mind for my first game?

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by grant5

Don't be afraid to take some loans. I've taken nearly ten and still been successful, but you need a strategy to pay them off by the end.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: What are some winning strategies for Le Havre?

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Somethings to keep in mind for my first game?

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by Raujour

grant5 wrote:

Don't be afraid to take some loans. I've taken nearly ten and still been successful, but you need a strategy to pay them off by the end.


Yes, but remember, loans are only available if you can't feed. I regularly get 4-5.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: What are some winning strategies for Le Havre?

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by Raujour

Don't do either until you've played several times... enjoy learning first.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Somethings to keep in mind for my first game?

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by Murr

This was a mistake we made for a long time and only realized we were doing it wrong when someone was playing on the iPad and mentioned it wouldn't let him ship at the end of the game like we did.

Understand how the building "Shipping Line" works. It only allows you to ship 2 or 3 or 4 individual tokens on your ships. This wasn't very clear from reading the description of the building until you get into the example text of the thing. This is possibly the worst part of the entire rule book to me, when you have to dig into the example to find out exactly what is meant.

The player pays 3 energy for each of his ships that he wants to use to ship goods. Wooden ships can ship 2 goods, Iron ships 3 and Steel ships 4. Luxury liners cannot be used to ship goods. Each shipped meat, smoked fish, charcoal, hide, brick and iron earns the player 2 Francs; each cattle, bread and coal earns 3 Francs, each leather 4 Francs, each coke 5 Francs and each steel 8 Francs. Other goods can be shipped for 1 Franc each. The earnings are shown on the Shipping Line card as well as on each goods token (bottom right). A player who ships goods with more than one ship at once may pay all the energy costs together; they need not be paid separately for each ship.

Typically, players will use 1 coke, with an energy value of 10, to provide energy for 3 ships. Leather, cattle and bread are shipped most frequently, but also coke and brick. Each good can be carried on each type of ship. A player may ship several of the same good or different goods on a single ship.


Until we read the last sentence in that italicized part of the text carefully, we thought you could ship stacks of goods on the ships, not just individual tokens. And even then it's not entirely obvious, you just have to assume it.

Compare it to how the description of the Bridge over the Seine building is written, and it's easy to make this mistake.

The player may sell as many goods as he wishes. He receives 1 Franc for each upgraded good and 1 Franc for any combination of 3 standard goods (they may be the same or different goods).


Both entries use the word "goods"

Just my 2 cents on the question :)

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Somethings to keep in mind for my first game?

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by Desiderata

Strongly consider taking iron when there are 3 or more (sometimes even if only 2 early in the game) on the offer.

Build ships as early as you can to help with food obligations (and for later Shipping Line).

Consider buying town buildings with extra cash when you can. The VPs are the same as the coins you paid for it (with a few exceptions on buildings that are more expensive to buy), you'll avoid entry fees when visiting them, and you'll have the building icons and/or deny them to your opponents who might build the Bank/Town Hall.

And as stated already, don't be afraid of loans. They aren't difficult to pay back, especially with 3+ players with use of the Courthouse building.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Somethings to keep in mind for my first game?

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by Desiderata

Raujour wrote:

2) Don't buy an excessive number of ships just for the purpose of food.

I don't know that I've ever seen anyone have too many ships that they're paying less food than what their ships bring in. Okay, maybe by a single food for a turn or two, but my experience is definitely on the other end of the spectrum--needing ships.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Somethings to keep in mind for my first game?

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by grant5

Murr wrote:

Compare it to how the description of the Bridge over the Seine building is written, and it's easy to make this mistake.

The player may sell as many goods as he wishes. He receives 1 Franc for each upgraded good and 1 Franc for any combination of 3 standard goods (they may be the same or different goods).


Both entries use the word "goods"

Yes, but the ship entry dictates specific quantities, while the bridge says "as many goods as he wishes." So I don't see where the confusion comes from.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: Somethings to keep in mind for my first game?

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by grant5

Raujour wrote:

grant5 wrote:

Don't be afraid to take some loans. I've taken nearly ten and still been successful, but you need a strategy to pay them off by the end.


Yes, but remember, loans are only available if you can't feed.

*OR when you can't pay your interest from existing loans.

And on that note, another important tip: You only pay ONE franc for interest no matter how many loans you have, not one per loan.

If you want to play the expert (official variant) rules, you pay one franc if you have fewer loans than the number of players in the game, and two if you have loans greater than or equal to the number of players in the game. But never more than 2.

Reply: Le Havre:: General:: Re: What are some winning strategies for Le Havre?

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